Part three of our series of interviews with horror and cult filmmaker Gary A. Sherman.
Two weeks ago SHOCK ran part one of our ongoing series of conversations with filmmaker Gary A. Sherman, beginning with an in-depth interview about the making of his mesmerizing 1973 horror classic DEATH LINE (aka RAW MEAT).
Then, in part two, Sherman discussed what might be his most famous horror film, writer Dan OBannon and Ronald Shussett s unsettling 1981 chiller DEAD & BURIED.
This week, we look at Sherman’s sojourns into hard-action filmmaking with his brutal VICE SQUAD and hardcore TV remake WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE.
Sherman is one of the most under-appreciated auteurs working in the genre, his own personal brand of films serving as a vehicle for expression of his political perspective, and acknowledgement and advocacy of basic human rights.
Again, heres Gary
SHOCK: Vice Squads ultra-realistic depiction of the gritty Hollywood sex trade and the exploitation of sex trade workers was one of the first of its kind. Not only was the majority of the film shot on location but to add to the authenticity, stars Gary Swanson and Season Hubley spent weeks immersed in the real lives of the character types they played. How did these experiences affect their performance on set?
SHERMAN: VICE SQUAD needed to be real if it was going to have the impact that I wanted it to have. I actually went through and did a kind of abbreviated LAPD course so that I could [do a ride along]. I spent six weeks riding as the second man in a two-man vice car in Hollywood. Once we got into casting and making the film, I arranged for Wings [Hauser] and Season [Hubley] to spend time on Hollywood Boulevard, protected by the police, and just let them get immersed. The Vice cops knew all the hookers and the pimps on the streets so theyd pick em up and pull em in and get em to sit down with Season and Wings and talk to them. Then the three of us would spend a lot of time getting into the whole culture of what the sex trade really is, which is a pretty ugly culture. I just wanted Vice Squad to be as real as anything could possibly be, which I felt really would make the terror of what Hollywood Boulevard in that life is. I was hoping that [the film] would be considered something outside of my horror background, but most of the critics said, well its another horror film from Gary Sherman, and Ram Rod is one of the best monsters hes ever created. So I have to live with that but Im really proud of VICE SQUAD. Its one of my favorites of my films. I think that in the same way that DEATH LINE was able to point a finger at classicism in England, Vice Squad points a real finger at the exploitation of women in the United States, especially at that time period. And that was my intent with that film. A lot of women felt that the film was very anti-woman, which made me quite sad because my intention was to really depict and show the ugliness of the exploitation of women. I am anything but a misogynistI am quite far to the other side of that.
SHOCK: What was it like directing Rutger Hauer in a sort of role reversal for himplaying the protagonist instead of the villainand Gene Simmons as the Arabian terrorist in your fourth theatrical feature, WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE?
SHERMAN: I had just seen a movie called MAD MAX and there was an Australian actor Mel Gibson. I wanted him, and so we sent the script to Mel Gibson and he wanted to do it, but he wanted too much money and the studio would not pay him the money that he wanted. Then somebody came up with the idea of Rutger Hauerand I loved the idea of Rutger Hauer, I loved Rutger Hauerbut I thought Mel Gibson was way more Nick Randall than Rutger Hauer would be. So the deals were made and Rutger got hired because he was willing to defer more of his salary than Mel Gibson was. So we brought him in for voice training to get rid of his Dutch accent.
Then Im casting the rest of the picture and Im sitting in my office at the studio and the production coordinator, Barry Bernardi, comes in and says, Gene Simmons is on the phone for you. And I said, Gene Simmons from KISS? And he said yeah. I had never met him and I said, what does he want? And he said he wants to talk to you about casting him in a role in this movie. So I said, I have enough problems on this movie already without having some drug-crazed rock & roller playing a part in the film. I just dismissed it but he kept calling me.
[Executive producer] Arthur [Sarskissian] and I were sitting in the office and somebody came in and said, Gene Simmons is calling you again; whats he calling you about? and I said, he wants to be in the movie, but I dont think I want him in the movie. And Arthur says, Why dont you talk to him? If nothing else, maybe we can get him to write some music. So I pick up the phone and theres a voice on the other end of the phone that I could not believe belonged to the Gene Simmons that existed in my head. He was this elegant voice, incredibly articulate.
The next day I met Gene and was blown away by him. I had no idea that Gene was not drug crazy; Gene had never done a drug or drank any alcohol in his entire life. He had grown up as an orthodox Jew; he had studied to be a Rabi and instead dedicated his life to preaching to rock and roll audiences. He was just an amazing, amazing person. He read to me for the part and he was fantastic, and did a great job in the movie. He was an unbelievable help to us; he did all the Arabic translations and everything. Gene and I went on to do another project together afterwards. He brought me the comic book Jon Sable, which he and I developed into an NBC television series.
SHOCK: Taking the 9/11 Terrorist attacks, ISIS and other current issues of international terrorism into consideration, do you feel it would have been possible to make WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE today? How do you think the public (and the MPAA) would react?
SHERMAN: I think we should make WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE today. I would rather do it in a much more realistic way than we did it then. About two years ago, Arthur and I had a conversation about doing a remake. I dont know if I would want to direct it but I would want to be involved in it. I think WANTED: DEAD OR ALIVE was ahead of its time and it is extremely relevant in todays world. I think it could also be a piece that could carry a lot of political commentary. I felt that at that time we were facing a danger from terrorism. Im very much against war; Im very much against terrorism of any kind. I find terrorism to be one of the most appalling things that can exist in society. I dont know how we, as a modern society, can decide what political things should take precedence based on who has a stronger army and who can kill more people. I dont think thats a way to go about deciding about the political agenda. I think that we as a civilization need to sit down and figure out how to solve political problems over a table, not over a battlefield. And I dont think that killing people is an answer to any political question. It just seems that as a civilization, we havent progressed very well, and using violence and guns and bombs and whatever to express our political views is just really stupid. So thats what Wanted: Dead or Alive was about.
Rutgers line, Fuck the bonus! had nothing to do with him giving money away; it had to do with the stupidity of the whole situation.
Stay tuned for the next Gary Sherman interview where the director discusses the ill-fated POLTERGEIST III.
